[Digital Backlot]

I want pixel numbers for what film qaulity mattes are painted at.

any help would be good. thanks

-Joel

[Digital Backlot]

12 views and no replies? I didn't think it was that hard a question.

buller? Buller?....

[dstipes]

Hi Joel,

At the How Stuff Works site at:

http://entertainment.howstuffworks.com/cfx3.htm


This is what Marshall Brain wrote in his article "How Centropolis FX Creates Visual Effects"


"For example, in "The Patriot," 150 of the shots in the film required visual effects. The rolls of film for these shots are sent to CFX to be scanned. CFX uses a Kodak Cineon scanner capable of up to 4,096 dots of resolution (4,096 X 3,112 dots per frame). "The Patriot" was scanned at 2K resolution (2,048 x 1,556 dots per frame), and the 150 shots and all of the intermediate files consumed about 1.6 terabytes of disk space."

*********

I believe feature films were originally being scanned at 3000 lines in the beginning, but the 2048 line resolution is now the norm.

I know some of the members have more info on this.

Upon reflection, there may be some confusion about what you are asking. (Or maybe it is just me being confused?) :^0


For example, I believe a film quality straight lock off might be 2048 x 1556, but if you have to push in with a virtual camera move then the painting would have to be at a much larger resolution (or image size in Photo Shop) If you started with the same image size as the movie frame, then pushed in, you would get a break up or deterioration of the image.

Does this help any?

David

[rrische]

From what I've seen, 2k seems to be the bottom limit for feature work.
Although every place I've worked has it's own particular number, and
different numbers for different shows at that!
For instance, at ILM, Vistavision plates were scanned at 1728x1050, 4 perf
anamorphic (squeezed) and Super35 was scanned at 2020x1228. At The
Orphanage on "The Day After Tomorrow", we worked in Cineon format
(a FIRST for me, using Photshop CS in 16 bit) and the plates were all
2048.
Quite often, I like to work at higher res, usually twice the normal res.
Then I size the matte painting back down for compositing.

[dstipes]

Hi Joel,

Upon further research, In Ron Brinkmann's book "The Art and Science of Digital Compositing" (ISBN 0121339602) full aperature film is 4096 pixels Horizontal resolution and 3112 vertical for Cineon scanner files.

The Patriot scans were at "half resolutions" which I think is the practice now. I believe film is typically scanned at the half rez, manipulated and then "up rezed" to 4k when the image goes back to negative.

(Other members, please correct if this is in error.)

David

[dstipes]

Joel and Rick,

I have also heard that other matte artists often work double size to the final film resolution.


David

[cstoski]

I too prefer to paint my matte shots at approximatly double the output size. I find that this helps to hide brush strokes and make the final shot look more realistic. The sizes I've grown accustomed to are similiar to those stated by others, but here's the numbers I used at Matte World Digital set by Monaco Labs in San Francisco using Cineon scanners and printers:

-35mm full ap: 2048x1556 (this size is usually matted to 1.85 after filmout)
-Anamorphic: 3656x1556 (unsqueezed) & 1828x1556 (squeezed for filmout) End result is 2.35
-Vistavision plates: 3072x2048 (rarely used)

Of course HD and Imax resolutions have a whole other set of standards. I believe that currently the high end of the HD formats is around 2k wide. However, I still work at double res even for large Imax frames.

[rrische]

Joel,
Hope this helps answer your question! Everything now should
be as clear as mud!! :D

[Digital Backlot]

LOL clear as mudd yes! but honestly that does help out. I was thinking 2048 x 1556 but then I was also thinking it should be twice this if I plan on going in on it.

so I'm guessing after reading though this that if I print my film at 2,048 x 1,556 then my matte should be twice this resolution if I want to zoom in and have room to move right?

After doing a little research myself I found that there are literally hundreds of different resolutions or at least a hundred years of change.

This does help a ton though. I think I know what I have to do. Thanks for everyone that helped, I'm sure this will help others who stumble upon this thread.


-Joel

[jThorngren]

Well, as to just expand whats been said :) I think most people tend to do a 2:1 ratio of whats painted to what shows up on screen. So, if you have a 2k outsize, your painting is atleast 3-4k.

Now, this is without any push-ins (more or less). Quite often you might do a painting thats going to be used in a few different shots with maybe one shot being very close to it, or a shot that has a nodal rotation of sorts. This one shot might bring the actual painting up into 10k or higher and might force the painting to not have the dimensions of the out-size.

So, just measure how big it needs to be in the shot/zoom thats the 'closest' to the painting, and do it in double size from that.