Matte Zoom test, what do you think?

[rapscaLLion]

Hey, I'm just testing out this shot I'm doing for school.

The camera starts above the clouds and flies straight down towards the roadway below. It will track the lone car that I will add in later, and eventually end up right on top of the hood looking in through the windshield.

TO DO LIST:
-Slow the camera rotation... it's too fast!!!
-Add in the car... (The headlights will light most of the area, because this shot is at night.)
-Fix the road so it doesn't just end.
-Fix the projection on the white houses... they look flat.
-Smooth the start of the camera motion.
-Fade the clouds out before the camera passes them in order to fix the "flashing" effect.


Besides that (admittedly long) list, anything else you can suggest?


The video is here (around 1MB, DIVX):
http://www.wanuch.com/Zoom_Test.avi

EDIT: New version is here: www.wanuch.com/Zoom_Test2.avi (http://www.wanuch.com/Zoom_Test2.avi)

EDIT: Newest version here: www.wanuch.com/Zoom_Test3.avi (http://www.wanuch.com/Zoom_Test3.avi)


PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE save it to disk, don't try and stream it! You'll kill my fileserver!

Thanks for your input :)

[homer]

just do your to-do list.
and it should look good

[rapscaLLion]

Thanks :)

[jamesvfx]

I think you should add a moon light so it can draw higlights all over the terrain in order to achieve a realistic effect and it will cenrtanly give lots of detail to the terrain making the scene looks clearer. in my opinion the rotation is too much.

[rapscaLLion]

Fixed everything on my to do list, except the cloud transitions, once that is done I'll upload a new version.

Good idea with the moonlight... I paint that right on to the landscape since I didn't bother deforming the planes that I projected the textures on, there wasn't really any need because it is so fast. But it would definately help!

[Daniel]

I feel a little dizzy, may be a few less spirals? :shock:

[lightwell]

in my opinion the rotation is too much.

I would have to agree with that, it all went so fast that the road started looking like a spinning dial. Bit more definition in the surrounding landscape might offset that.

Look forward to seeing your updates!

JM

[rapscaLLion]

Er... my to do list already stated the camera rotation was too much lol... it's been fixed :) New version today after work.

[lightwell]

Yep, but theres nothing like having confirmed, that which you knew already!

[wolf]

Wo wo wo wo wo wo wo wo wo wo wo wo wo wo .... feels like a hangover :twisted: ! Nice work dude ! might want to reduce the number of camera rotations. But like you said its already on your to do list .. so no more critics ... Keep up the good work :P

[rapscaLLion]

New version is here:

I put in a cheap car model for now, until we film the live action plates.
I have yet to make the moon light more convincing, and the cloud
transitions need a bit more touchup. I toned down the rotation in the
camera, is it still too much?

www.wanuch.com/Zoom_Test2.avi (http://www.wanuch.com/Zoom_Test2.avi)

[wolf]

hey .. Its better than before .... could you maybe reduce two or three more rotations? The rest has shaped up real nice. Good work

[lightwell]

Massive improvement on the rotations and overall. Rotations feel fine.The car really helps orient you with the red and white lights at rear and front.

My only critique might be of the end portion and how you arrive at the car hood/bonnet. Might help if the car comes towards the camera more in this part of the sequence as it feels a bit like you land on the roof and then slide backwards onto the hood.

Have you had a look at MWD's work for The Ring?

http://www.matteworld.com/film/2002/ring.html

Look forward to the next update.


JM

[Zoetrope]

Hi rapscaLLion,
Looks great! I'm not sure what kind of mood you are trying to establish, but if you are going for suspense, or creating tension, slowing down the rotation of the camera will help. Even less rotation. But that really depends on the mood you are going for. You might want to ease into the rotation right when the translation of the camera starts. There seems to be an offset in the translation & rotation at the beginning of the move.

I think it would improve the camera move, and lessen the "dizzy factor" if you were to center the car on the rotational axis of the camera move. That would keep the car in shot the entire camera move. I think having the car dissappear from frame just as we are settling on it as the focus is confusing.

Can't wait to see the finished product! :D

[rapscaLLion]

Ok, I'll try to keep the car in frame more.
The car's motion is confusing, because it is rolling to a
stop. When the camera settles on it, it is at a full stop,
which kinda makes things weird. I'll have the camera
settle at it's final location, and have the car pull up to a
stop in front of it, that's should fix it.
As for the rotation, the camera only rotates all the way
around twice, once is not enough (I tried it), so maybe
1 and a half turns would do the trick.
Anyways, I know for sure I need to fix the end,
and the moonlight, so I'll work on that :)

Thanks for your input!

[rapscaLLion]

Oh ya, I've seen that page about the ring, VERY cool stuff.
The simplicity of the geometry used is a testiment to the quality of the painters who textured it!

[rapscaLLion]

Here is the third iteration, better camera movement and clouds (they still need a little work though), as well as bumpmapping and specular for the ground. The difference is VERY noticable (w/ or w/o specular highlights) and makes it much better, but with the motion blur the effect is dulled. Unfortunately I have to use motion blur to cover up a bit of sloppiness in a small area... you could probably still spot it if you're looking, it's a bit of a hard edge when the camera is getting very close to the car.

But other than that, how does it look?

http://www.wanuch.com/Zoom_Test3.avi

EDIT: Also, ignore the car and girl eating pizza... they will be replaced!!!

[cstoski]

Thanks for the comment on THE RING shot. That was a shot I painted at Matte World and alot of fun to execute! The problem is however, with extreme camera moves you have to really be in touch with what you are trying to achieve (in the film, in the scope of the story, how much photorealism is required and how much do you want the audience to BELIEVE what they're seeing is reallity). Even the most photreal matte painting can come off as unrealistic if the camera move isn't executed properly. Also, let us all know what the point of the shot is and how it's supposed to fit in the story... we can give you better comment that way.

Some of my thoughts on your current shot:
-the camera starts slow, then ramps up - I feel it should not ramp at all, if it's nesesary ramp less (a film editor would mosty likely take the first 3 seconds off this current shot - cutting to a camera already in motion feels more real)
-right at the 9 or 10 second mark the camera feel like it spins faster (in my humble opinion... not good)
-I like the number of cloud layers we fly through... good work
-2 of the cloud layers seem to pop off, they should softly disapear as we leave the cloud

Lastly, as we get to the bottom, things need to be painted and colored better if you are going for a photoreal look (I assume you are because you mentioned a live-action plate being shot). For moonlight and nighttime matte shots look at alot of photo reference. The land could be brighter and cooler and the cars front and rear lights should have the correct value--- again use good photo reference.

This shot has alot of potential to be both a good demo reel piece and alot of fun to do. Keep at it.

[rapscaLLion]

np, when I saw the ring in theatres, I was wowed by this shot, and I truly believed that it was (for thhe most part at least) a very well executed helicopter shot.

As for mine:
I had been asked by the director of one of our school plays (there are three atm) to create a short video to start the play off. The video will play, and at it's conclusion we switch right into the live action on stage, the characters continuing right from where the video left off. The play takes place in a bus shelter, where a woman has escaped to after witnessing a murder and being chased by the killer. The video will show parts of the murder and chase to help set things up.

This shot that I'm working on right now is the very first shot in the video, coming in right after the title. I'm not sure if I will superimpose the title or simply fade into the shot from the title. Given that, do you still recommend not ramping the camera?
The camera spin is at a constant speed as far as I know, it's probably the curves in Max screwing it up, I'll check it out.
The clouds pop off because the camera is passing through the clouds plains before they have faded out, so I just need to make sure they are transparent before the camera hits them. Getting the timing right so it looks good is the hard part :)
The painted stuff is actually put together from day shots (of course), and I never actually converted the final into a night shot, because it looked decent as is. However, I will convert it for the next version. The landscape actually looks better without the motion blur except for a couple errors, I'm definately going to take most of it off, leaving just a little in for effect.

The car lights I haven't really been worried about because I don't know what car we will actually use. I have a problem in that I have to shoot the live action plates without camera motion, as I don't have the benefit of a camera crane or motion control. I'm not really sure how well the final shot will turn out given that... camera mapping can only go so far :(
Because of that, I might end up having to use a CG car instead of a real one... then I've gotta map the female onto geometry inside it... *sigh*

Off to convert day to night :)

[cstoski]

I'm not sure if I will superimpose the title or simply fade into the shot from the title. Given that, do you still recommend not ramping the camera?

With this in mind I would not change what you have. Having the title superimposed on the background might be cool, then the title fades off and we ramp into the shot.

I don't go to alot of plays, but this idea of having a movie/video and a play at the same time sounds really interesting.

[rapscaLLion]

Well it's not at the same time really, it just sets up the audience so they know what has just happened. The video will be a couple minutes long, then as soon as it ends the live action takes over. You don't see it often, except in more experimental shows. I'm the technical director for the three shows, so I was the one to ask. This show in particular is a little abstract, minimalistic, etc.

An unrelated question: How long (approx) did that shot from the ring take, concept to completion?