specialization of matte artists

[envir0]

hi all :D

any one have ideas on weather matte painters specialize in a field of painting, like become a lanscape,city or interiors matte painter or do matte painted generally do all types of work?

What is a good road to take when deciding on becoming a matte artist?

Any experienced artist out there with some advise for newbee's? ..like myself.

how do you get your first job?

thanks :wink:
envir0

[emptyslot]

well i can talk from my own experience, though im not a fully fledged mattepaintiner, doing mattes for commercials mostly..

i got in as a generalist in 3d and then started to show off that i have the passion and skill to deal with mattepaintings, and when the company gets jobs that needs paintings i usualy do them. so thats how i got into it and alot thanks to this site that gave me alittle nudge on the way :P

[envir0]

hi emptyslot

thanks so much for your info

Yes this site is AUSOME :D,

so much info and great peeps to help out with the quessies we have

seems to be a niech skill to be a matte artist?

envir0 :wink:

[emptyslot]

i would wait and see if someone else could answer that..

[Suirebit]

as a matte painter you have to know everything of course, including making 2.5D mattes.

a good road...come here and start practicing with the help of the guys :D or...if you have the privilege to live in US or Canada get an internship or go to NDA

First job...if you got that internship it comes naturally. If you went to NDA a studio will hijack you (if you're good); and if you're on your own...then tough luck....search around for freelance work, that's how you start to become known...I'm in this situation and I won't recommend this way, it's damn hard to get noticed :D

What's a niech skill lol

[richn]

i started as a runner with a degree in computer science (so yes originally a programmer). I gave that up as soon as i finished uni, infact never had a programming job. Got a job as a runner while learning 3D in my spare time and eventually got into 3D as lighting td. Since then i became more interested in matte painting, concept and illustration than 3d, and luckily there were a few junoir positions available at the time so i swapped over.

I learned it all from dylan coles dvds and some first basic primers for photoshop - lynda.com.

If you can keep at it and get into a company, you learn so much so fast

[Alex Jenyon]

First job...if you got that internship it comes naturally

You have got to be kidding! Anything with as much competition as matte painting is damn hard to get into regardless of the method you try.

I would highly recommend nepotism, but if (like me) you are lacking the suitable relatives, it might be tricky... :wink:

Lots of matte painters seem to 'get into' matte painting through other routes in a vfx studio - 3D operator, texture artist, etc, so knowing some skills that will get you in would be a good plan.

[envir0]

thanks :)

:(
so it seems that one needs to have another way in, then to move from there. something like compositing as a base to jump from?

mmm

[rrische]

I have interviewed (and been interviewed) many many times for matte painting
jobs, and it all boils down to one thing- you have to show good
work. Period. No one is going to feel secure sitting you down and walking
away from your desk if you can't show you know how to do the work.
(2 things actually: you have to have the work, and you have to
be trustworthy, not a jerk, and not have an ego the size of the Empire
State building)
It is possible to take an entry level position in some other area at a VFX
facility, and over time you may work your way into doing matte painting.
It depends on the company- how large they are, what kind of work they
do, etc.
For larger companies, they will have easy access to experienced matte
painters, and will want the best, since they are usually working on high
profile features.
But I know several matte artists who came in to the field through unusual
paths like professional photography or concept art.

But the best way- put together some samples that will blow people away.
3D is good but not necessary. Compositing is good but not necessary.
Most companies already have people who can do those jobs. Employers
want to know that you can make a dynamite image. You have to be an artist
first. Start with the basics of a good portfolio.

About specialization- there's no such thing in matte painting. You need to be
able to tackle all subjects sent your way by productions. Personally, I'm
not really interested in doing stylized films like "Peter Pan" or "300".
But I like to eat. 8)

[samsonsreaper]

if you are good and dedicated to learn and develop, you will get a job. Time is the only issue. Also since this is such a competative buisness and alot of companies dont use mattes as much you really have to put down alot of time to create good stuff to show for the time comes when ppl do look for mattepainters.

But creating a few good mattes isnt really enough, you have to be flexible and do what is asked of you.Which basically means a solid artistic base, and to have the guts to experiment and learn at the same time. An artist who always asks for help slows down the production.

an artist once said "if you can create as good stuff as you see in TV/Movies, then you will get offers"

[RiKToR]

I will second Rick Rische but add one thing that was mentioned at Siggraph this year when I was "dipping my feet in the water". Though 3d isnt always a requirement it would be something you may want to snag the basics of. Digital Domain requests that their matte artist can at least setup a basic set of geometry in Maya that can be projected in Nuke. And I have heard a few others say that basic 3d knowledge is a plus.

[rrische]

3D is definitely something you need to understand, since your work is
almost always going to be integrated into some sort of 3D scene. So you need
to grasp the basic concepts.
DD's matte artists vary somewhat in their 3D experience, and the features division
uses 3d StudioMax mostly, though a few also use Nuke. In fact, the features
division employs a StudioMax specialist who does nothing but work with the matte
artists to help them setup projections, work out kinks, and run shots.
StudioMax was used for the 3D projection matte shots in "Golden Compass",
for example. I was just there in October.

But making the image itself is always the first skill.

[richn]

Hey Rick, checked out your profile on IMDB, thats a very impressive credit list. What mattes did you do for terminator 2 and tremors - do you have them on your reel somewhere. Would be great to see em

[samsonsreaper]

one more thing...

not all mattes are done with photographic/3d elements hence i want to emphasize that you haveto have a solid base of painting too.

[dani_dev]

Hi there, just thought I'd join in with this discussion as I am a junior matte painter working full time in film. I have been working as a matte painter for about 6 months now, and have been lucky enough to work on a good few features so far...I'm 22, and I had no back route to get here. I knew noone, and had no recommendations from friends and family. I come from a poor background, and whilst still struggling to get through financially (as it takes time I'm sure all of you know!!!!)...I am so grateful and find myself in a lucky position.

I studied film, fine art and animation... I basically worked my socks off whilst there...no partying for me!!! made a beautiful 16mm film (if a little ropey...) and a 3D stop motion animation...art installations using film etc... but everything was backed up with a fine set of sketches, illustrations, storyboards, blah blah. I left uni, and started work immediately in comedy production as runner. I blagged this job with banter, and chit chat when I came across a film crew one day in my travels... when I was on set, I talked to everyone and made sure I was the happiest person to help out for anything.A smile goes a long way, and a kind comment from someone when your stressed can be remembered i guess, so thats my method. And it also keeps you happy when your spilling hot tea all down your arms...i've never had such fun in my life, and i'd do it all over again. Some of the greatest friends in my life are from on set, intense hours and no sleep separates the men from the boys!!!

After various jobs in production, and desperately trying to get onto art production teams with no luck, I realised I was missing out on a world that I was ignorant to, and decided to take a risk and go join post production as runner to experience the other side of post...a huge fall in pay (i had to borrow from banks and loans etc...nightmare...but all the best decisions take risks, its scary especially if you have no back up from anyone, but well worth it as you avoid the "what if"...) ...in my first week of running in post, i met the lead matte painter here. I didnt know who he was at all or what job he did, but we got chatting in the kitchen, and I said how much I loved art, and drawing and wished I could translate this to a skill... he took me on straight away after seeing my traditional art work... and since then I have travelled across the world with this job and have found it hard to look back...!

I'm loving it so far, and I know I'm one of the lucky ones... but I think you create your own luck in ways, and with a good attitude, and upbeat personality (with a smidgen of talent of course...!) you can do it... even without a backdoor route. I'm still struggling with many elements of the job (its not as hands on as i'd like, and I miss the buzz of onset activity) but the creative painting and drawing side all day, learning a craft and a skill that will last for any art job in future is what makes this great for someone like me.

hope this encourages you a bit mate... it's not perfect by any means yet, and I have a bloody long way to go, but I thought you might like to know there are loads of peeps in the same position as you, me included. chin up, keep smiling!xxx

[Justin Atkinson]

There seems to be a general conceit that watching a set of DVD's, perhaps being at a convention, in LA, or studying at the right college will get you in etc. Certainly in some cases it may help, but there really is no substitute for pure artistic talent, and that kind of talent can't be learned, it can only be perfected.

The reason I say this is simply because I have seen so many reels from people, that are so artistically and skillfully poor, I simply switch them off. Yet they've been to animation college, 3D college video college whatever, but the work on their reels often shows little if any artistic talent.

Mr. Rische has a simple and fundamental point "You have to be an artist first". Above all I look for this first, not the software or the techniques they use. I certainly wouldn't turn a good painter down because he can't create some geometry, that would be foolish, if the work stands out and he or she is good, I'll hire a 3D guy in or do it myself!

Most people I know and those that I don't have either worked there way up from one position to another to reach the role of mattepainter. Or they have simply come in from another angle unexpectedly ending up mattepainting.

It's not hard to get noticed if your are genuinely talented and your work is good!

[richn]

very true, i should have mentioned that. The dvd's are very good for learning techniques and workflows, however you need the artistic eye to be able to tell what works and what doesn't.

[envir0]

Wow

thankyou so much

i wanna be a matte painter, this is now my route.

thanks for the wonderful posts of inlightenment

just gotta keep at it

:D

[rrische]

Hey Rick, checked out your profile on IMDB, thats a very impressive credit list. What mattes did you do for terminator 2 and tremors - do you have them on your reel somewhere. Would be great to see em

Hi Rich,
You can see the work from T2 right here....

http://www.mattepainting.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=438

[Speculart]

Thank you so much for putting up that link rrische. Your input here is fantastic and much appreciated.....
I would love to see any more pieces you are able to show, as, I am sure, would everyone else.

[Suirebit]

It's not hard to get noticed if your are genuinely talented and your work is good!

Please forgive me if I'm wrong but I disagree.

I think the country you live in and your general situation counts a lot.

Example: you are very talented but there's no VFX studio in your country where you could start on as entry-level. No 'foreign' studio will take/hire someone who never worked before, no matter how talented he/she is.
Option: Move. But that's not an option for everyone.

I find myself in this situation (apart from the talent part, that's up to others to judge), and I continue to do freelance jobs in the hopes that I'll sometimes get lucky enough and get hired by a small studio outside; Yes, I don't wanna get into a big studio, I am hoping to get in...anywhere...But with each day pass my motivation gets emptied.


If I lived in Canada or Uk or US, where there are more studios than grocery stores, I would've just send my reel to all, sure that at least one would wanna hire me as a junior or entry-level.

Sometimes I even wonder if I should start doing something else...if I'll ever crack in a nice studio, no matter how small.

[samsonsreaper]

No 'foreign' studio will take/hire someone who never worked before, no matter how talented he/she is.

thats not true, i have had job offers from foreign studios even though i havent worked proffesional before them...

[Jim Maxwell]

to quote Justin "It's not hard to get noticed if your are genuinely talented and your work is good!"

this is absolutely true

I think Ryan Church said something along the lines of you should never have to hand-wave when showing a portfolio to someone, the work should speak for itself

regardless of how rough a piece or whatever, if you have a body of work to show someone, they'll realize whether you have talent or not - and hire you - you may have to slug it out for low pay for a little while, but if you're determined and your work is good you shouldn't have a problem

Jim

[Jim Maxwell]

if you really want to be a matte painter on major productions and there is no studio where you live, unless a company doesn't mind working with you online or over the web, you WOULD have to move...

[Timmay]

^ I'm in that situation now.

I'm in VA and have had considerations for a job and told them I'd come out to wherever the job is. Problem is they need people immediately and I'd need like a few days to get out there.

Time to move.

[Suirebit]

if you really want to be a matte painter on major productions and there is no studio where you live, unless a company doesn't mind working with you online or over the web, you WOULD have to move...

Of course. I was saying about moving without getting any prior job offers...just to be 'near' more opportunities and be spotted more easily.


I really hope you are right guys....that means I might still have a chance.

[Ventana]

I really hope you are right guys....that means I might still have a chance.

Are you kidding. Your stuff is great. I wish I had half the talent you have.

[Justin Atkinson]

Of course most of the major FX houses are either in Australia - NZ, UK, or LA but that's just the present state of the industry.

I moved from home to London because that's just what you have to do. However I searched and applied for work 'before I moved' like so many others in my field. I'd like to think that my work and not my locale got me the job.

Most people I work with come from all over the world, Singapore, Hong Kong, New Zealand, Lithuania, US,Germany, Sweden etc etc. But they all pretty much sent there resumes first and applied for work before making the trip.

Certainly living in the UK doesn't mean I have a better chance than anyone else. That's total nonsense, employers don't look for that they look at the work.

Suirebit according to your profile you are a senior mattepainter already. I'd say that's pretty good so far. In fact your experience is pretty glowing, having worked with pre emminent matte painters etc.

What are you worried about?

[envir0]

brilliant info peeps :D

umm Hello Justin Atkinson

do you have a list of FX companies in Australia,,, perhaps?
companies that would employ an artist as a nubee matte artist.

itching to break into the industry in aus

here is a link to two works i did
http://www.mattepainting.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=3764

:) so from the sounds of it, one has to have a very good show reel, go out on the road (so to speak) and find the work?

thanks so much

envir0