Stoski / Gnomon DVDs on 3D Matte Painting... [Archive]

cstoski

07-28-2006, 01:24 AM

Hey there everyone, it's been a while since I've posted, but I've been extremely busy! I just wanted to let the Matte Painting community know that I've just completed 3 DVD titles in conjunction with The Gnomon Workshop. Here's a bit about them if you're interested - I have alot to say but I'll try and make it short.

Cover of DVD 1:
http://home.comcast.net/~cstoski/images/gnomon/Palace_w_logo_01.jpg

Volume1: Matte Painting for Film. On this one I talk about alot of the basics including showing many of the common film resolutions used (I find I get asked that alot). Then I go on to create the concept art and the final matte painting for the shot you see below. I use photos, digital paint, build and light the CG Palace and I also get into creating elements like CG waterfalls and moving mist for shots like these and finally I show all of the compositing I did on the shot including a post camera push-in.

Volume 2: 3D Matte Painting and Camera Mapping. For this one I teach the common Camera Map Projection techniques that I've used on numerous Feature Films. There are 2 Matte Paintings on this DVD, each has a different camera move and I show the complete creation of the second one. It has a 2k moving plate that I work with and comp.

Volume 3: Set Extensions and Complex Lighting. On this DVD I show the creation of 2 shots that extend the plate. The first one covers the basics. For the second one I dive right into match the moving Las Vegas-like plate. I create a CG camera, CG model and lighting. By the end I get into animated neon signs, a post-camera move and compositing tricks.

Overall I hope you'll find these interesting and educational. I thought it was important to try and create Matte Painting DVDs that covered the basics of painting, but also took the shot to the final level of adding motion. All of the final 5 shots on the DVDs have movement just like do need for Feature Films.

Well, sorry that was so long-winded, I'll stop here. Don't hesitate to ask any questions. I'd be glad to answer.

stefuse

07-28-2006, 02:18 AM

Hi Chris !

Very cool to see you there !
I saw your work in differents movies and in "d'ARTISTE matte painting " it's a plaesure to see your art work there.

your news are good and as i want to progress in matte.
Your dvds will help me for resolution size i think and tips and tricks .

i can't wait to see theses titles ! :wink:

do you know when gnomon will put it online ?
i think i will tell you later for your dvds feedback !

Well , good continuation in your work !
and good holidays!

Stefuse

French jedi
----------------------------------------------------------
in valiant heart nothing is impossible!
----------------------------------------------------------

www.artfx-studio.com (http://www.artfx-studio.com)

Paul K

07-28-2006, 03:28 AM

I also saw your work in the d'artist matte painting book and i was really amazed

i have a question though as a real begginer (not even made one matte painting yet) will those dvds give me alot of useful information to start my paintings and maybe even take me to the intermidate level?

iv purchased the two dusso dvds already aswell as the two lorenz scheurer dvds and i want to buy the set of dylan's dvds aswell so is there any information on when your dvds will be out since i will wait untill your dvds will be online so i could purchase the dylan set aswell as yours.

thanks man.

lightwell

07-28-2006, 05:31 AM

Cool,

Any idea when they will be available?

RiKToR

07-28-2006, 06:20 AM

Sweet, looking foward to adding these to my collection.

thenextside

07-28-2006, 07:41 AM

Hi Chris,

Really looking forward to the DVDs! What 3D package do you use on them? Will your source files also be included so we can look over your texture and camera setups? Thanks for taking the time to do this. I'm sure they will be a great resource for all of us.

Cheers,
Tim

bcottman

07-28-2006, 09:13 AM

Looking forward to them Chris, seems very thorough.
Will you be doing a demonstration at the gnomon's siggraph booth then?

cstoski

07-28-2006, 12:33 PM

Thanks for all your interest. I was told they would be available in about 3 to 6 weeks.

Paul K: On the DVDs I try and give you an idea of what it's like to sit with a matte painter throughout entire projects and see all that goes on. A kind of 'day in the life of a matte painter'... or rather 'a month in the life of...'. You can see how I create the matte paintings from start to finish as well as many other aspects. Beginers can definately benefit from the DVDs and I share the 3D and compositing process that I feel even Intermediate and Advanced painters might want to see. I know a few of Advanced painters who don't have alot of 3D experience. Overall, there are DVDs already on the market that show you painting in Photoshop. Though I show you my painting techniques, I thought it would be best to also try and share the next level and show you how to make the shot move. I've created alot of 3D matte paintings with camera animation and that's what Hollywood often looks for now.

thenextside: I use 3D Studio Max, however, I try and teach the fundamentals of using 3D models and renders in your matte paintings as wells as the techniques of camera map projections and camera animation. These ideas can be applied to any 3D software. I did include my max files, texture maps, animated cameras, and photoshop files to look at. I feel this too was important to teaching the techniques.

bcottman: Overall I did try and get thorough. I visited a couple Matte Painting classes here in San Fransicsco and asked students what they would like to see taught as well as reviewed threads on this sight to see what common questions were regarding painting, camera mapping, 3D relationships to matte painting, film, etc. I felt I had something to offer and so compiled it on DVD. I won't be at SIGGRAPH this year, I'm finishing my vacation now and I'll be very busy at work. Maybe another time.

Let me know if there are anymore questions. I'll try and post a few more images soon.

roguenroll

07-28-2006, 01:00 PM

awsome, can't wait :D

s_messing

07-28-2006, 03:22 PM

Hey Chris,

I loved your work on pirates. Those aerial shots were beautiful.

I look forward to the dvds
-Steven

carbonmatter

07-29-2006, 05:19 AM

These sound awesome Chris!

It's great that you've taken the time and effort to do these, they will be a terrific resource. I've had some experience with Max projections at a previous studio - the per pixel camera mapping sure was nice.

Thanks again, really looking forward to these.

miguelslo

07-29-2006, 12:50 PM

Amazing, i just saw Pirates2 at the cinema and just loved the enviroements.... and here you are, the day after, offering us DVDs that will teach us how to achieve stuff like that. And it seems (from what you wrote), that you have covered all the aspects, that were missing from the previous Gnomon DVDs and also build on the already covered ones. I wish you and your DVDs huge success, Stoski :twisted:

What movies are you working on next if i may ask?

wow :D

cstoski

07-29-2006, 03:33 PM

I'm glad you guys liked Pirates. The shots were fun to work on. I wish I could post the work, but right now that's not possible. As for the next film I'm working on, I don't know if I am allowed to say right now, so I better not, but I do know it should be as fun as Pirates 2.

It's good to hear you guys are looking forward to the DVDs.

Kutkin

07-30-2006, 11:10 AM

Cool!

Although I have some experiences with doing camera projections and 3d matte paintings, it will be awesome to watch professional at work.

I loved the Pirates2 too.
I guess the next movie you are working on is Pirates3 :twisted:

renderman24

07-30-2006, 12:32 PM

awesome! Congrats to you!

smooth

07-31-2006, 06:33 AM

These dvd's sound cool. Thanks for giving us a heads up. Looks like I have to see Pirates2.
Doesn't look like this has been answered ...when can we expect these dvd's to be available??
p.s. let us know when you do put up more work on your site....i'd like to see it.
thx.

+smooth+

lightwell

07-31-2006, 07:41 AM

...when can we expect these dvd's to be available??

Chris mentioned 3-6 weeks inside one of his replies. After seeing the images on his cgsociety portfolio page, I am hoping its closer to 3 than to 6.

http://stoskidigital.cgsociety.org/gallery/386734/

cstoski

07-31-2006, 07:52 PM

This matte painting is from Volume 2: 3D Matte Painting and Camera Mapping. It'll be on the cover. I show how I created this matte shot, camera mapped it and other stuff. In the final render, the camera flies forward (a gentle breeze rocks the CG helicopter camera), the boats in the plate float through the water and there's many levels of paralax between the buildings added for a realistic sense of 3D space. I hope you like it.

http://home.comcast.net/~cstoski/images/gnomon/City_Sunset_800wide_01.jpg

Timmay

07-31-2006, 07:56 PM

wooohoooo! can't wait!

LaFrance

07-31-2006, 10:52 PM

wow, Chris, that's really stunning!
I'm Really looking forward to these dvd's.
I'm working on a cityscape now... looking at your work on Episode 3 for
reference/inspiration.
Thanks for sharing your knowledge. I hope you (and all the
other folks, Dylan, Alp, Ryan, etc. ) know how much people appreciate it.

Brian

Adam R.

08-01-2006, 05:32 PM

Oh wow. When are the release dates for these?

cstoski

08-02-2006, 01:31 AM

Adam R.: Somtime in September we should be expecting them.

Some of us were talking about Pirates of the Caribbean earlier in this thread. Look what came-up on the web recently:

http://www.e-onsoftware.com/about/press_materials/?page=..%2FPRIndex&date=August%201,%202006

cserbuj

08-02-2006, 02:29 AM

wow, those DVDs looks very very interesting. They cover exactly the aspects about mattes in films that i am most interested and i find more problems on them.

DVDs to look for sure. Thx ;)

PD: Glad to see you again in the forum....:)

miguelslo

08-03-2006, 05:59 PM

i know the dvds will come in a month or so... but dude, seriously I just can't wait, I can't, I can't, arrrghhhh :x

TLinden

08-14-2006, 06:53 AM

First of all: Great work! I enjoy your work verymuch! The content of the DVDs sounds very interesting. I will order them soon as they're aviable.

lightwell

08-28-2006, 04:23 AM

October 9th release accoring to the Gnomon site.

http://www.thegnomonworkshop.com/comingsoon.html

Looking forward to these!

Jim

akzit

08-28-2006, 05:25 PM

Stoski those look like great dvd's, and I expect like your fellow gnomon guru Chris Nichols dvd yours are going to be as good as does.

And since we are on the topic of ex-architects turned 3d gurus, what do you recommend a fellow architect but in the arch viz side of the bussines to imrpove the arch viz tehniques. I am totally new to matte painting but I think that these techniques could raise the level of arch viz, something like the chinese are doing (a friend told me that they do like a 40-60% split in 3d and digital painting) and that is why those images are so artistic.

The photorealistic is nice but I prefer a more artistic approch to them.

Well thanks and looking foward to your dvd's

cstoski

08-28-2006, 05:48 PM

akzit: To improve things in the arch viz industry I'd say to use the aspects of 3D that are quick and rely on painting methods (over top of CG) to improve the look. Painting the realism or style into the image is quicker then trying to squeeze it out of the CG render alone. Also, use render passes (ambient GI, Keylight, etc). This is great for still images. If you need to create animations use camera mapping techniques with the stills. Full CG animations with long camera paths typically look very CG. Keep your camera paths to a minimum - more like a film, less like a walk-through.

I hope this helps.

smooth

08-28-2006, 07:56 PM

I have to chime in here...
Akzit we do alot of arch viz with matte paintings here where I work. www.alpha-vision.com (http://www.alpha-vision.com). As Stoski pointed out using a good render pass workflow and adding photography as much as you can in the frame with organic touches ( ex: vegetation, textures, building, backgrounds, skies, real reflections in the windows etc) surround it with as much photo's as possible will add realism to the 3d. Even finding similar buildings that match in your area and take photos of that can help. Not to mention a good knowledge of your renderer. (pref, mental ray, vray, or maxwell amoungst some others). But nothing adds realism like taking a photo of it.
Look into some other gnomon titles such as the 3d sets. Those are very good - taught by an ex arch viz person as I recall.

Looking forward to those dvd's Chris. Hopefully we get to see you in MTL for the Adapt Conference?

+smooth+

cstoski

08-28-2006, 09:33 PM

I used to do Arch Viz for a couple years before going to work for Matte World. It does have alot of similarity to Matte Painting with the exception of dirt and grime. Typically Architecture firms don't want their buildings presented as weathered or aged, and this is usually the stuff matte artists use to help create realism. As a result, good lighting and texturing and plenty of photos (as smooth said) can help the comprimise.

The topics covered in the Set Extensions DVD I did covers topics that might help you in arch viz too. I know this sounds like a selfish plug, but I'm just tryin to help. I've always been grateful to those who have helped me. Just tryin to pay it forward.

Dave L

09-19-2006, 04:41 PM

No worries about plugging your DVD's. I for one appreciated the incredible willingness that you, Dylan and Alp have expressed for sharing your knowlege and expertise with all of us. Thank you and I look forward to buying your DVD's. :D

stylEmon

10-02-2006, 10:33 AM

Stoski, I think it's great that you are giving so much back to the artist community. Those DVDs sound very educational. I think those may be the first of my collection.

I am a 3d artist that's gone from tv commercials to Arch Viz. Maybe someday, I'll make it back to tv/film, specializing in matte painting.

I've always enjoyed arch/envir rendering, but now I am really put to the test. I work for a well known, successful firm in PHX, but they dont have a huge budget for rendering. They often give me fun, challenging projects to work on, but the time restraints KILL me.

I've resorted to smooths suggestion of 3d massing and painting over top. Although I enjoy the 3d aspect more, I think painting gives you an edge when you go back to full blown CG.

It's helped me create less repeating textures, and has allowed me to see opportunites to make the CG less.... well, CG.

Oh, and smooth, nice web site. Are you based in the phoenix/scottsdale location or one of the others? I hope I can begin cranking out renders of that quality.

miguelslo

10-18-2006, 01:19 PM

Awesome! :o
1
http://www.thegnomonworkshop.com/dvds/cst01.html

2
http://www.thegnomonworkshop.com/dvds/cst02.html

3
http://www.thegnomonworkshop.com/dvds/cst03.html

lightwell

10-18-2006, 02:56 PM

Just ordered mine.

Looking forward to these Chris!

Jim

tobiasth

10-19-2006, 09:06 AM

4
http://www.thegnomonworkshop.com/dvds/dhi01.html

Dave L

10-19-2006, 05:19 PM

I put in my order today as well. Thanks Chris!

lightwell

11-01-2006, 09:06 AM

Great DVD's Chris. I just finished working through the first one at the weekend and have made a start on the second.

For anyone who has Dylans or Dusso's DVD's and was worried that these were covering similar ground I would say that they complement (compliment?) those but go into a whole other different set of techniques and approaches. I feel the need to do something with waterfalls and rising mist!

JM

Dave L

11-01-2006, 10:13 AM

I second that. These are a great addition to anyone's library. I have been through all three twice now and each time I gain more valuable information and techniques. So, if you can get them all ASAP you won't be disapointed.

cstoski

11-01-2006, 08:35 PM

Lightwell and Dave L, thanks for your support and kind words. I'm really glad you guys are enjoying the DVDs and learning from them. Let me know if you have any questions.

eol

11-02-2006, 01:09 AM

Hey Chris Love your work. Cant wait to see your dvds. I have couple questions: Which version of shake are you using- as I saw on screenshots Its windows version am I right? Next I would like to know if you are using any cg water in this projects and what is the best tool for realistic water/like lake and river/ animation. Thanx!

cstoski

11-02-2006, 10:31 PM

I used Shake version 2.51 for the PC (for video capture reasons) - typically no special bells and whistles needed for Matte Painting Composites (ie, no blue screen extraction, etc). The way I composite follows a philosophy of keeping things and creating things to be tweakable in the comp. Really, these principles can be applied to any simple compositing software.

I didn't use CG water surfaces on the DVDs. There is painted water and reflection cheats though. Also CG particles for waterfalls. To create CG water in the past I've created a custom shader in Max using animated noise/bump maps and ratracing in conjunction with displacement maps and ripple modifiers. Combining them correctly you can get realistic results that look like lakes or rivers. Also, rendering out the reflection passes and shadow passes, etc allow for a tweakable comp that gives you alot of control for achieving a photoreal look.

eol

11-25-2006, 11:20 AM

Hey Chris I watched your dvd and Its awesome! Theres only 1 thing that Im working all day now to find - how did you do multiply_n_flatten action in 2nd dvd. I cant find method for multiplying pixels alpha.

cstoski

11-25-2006, 02:16 PM

I'm glad you enjoyed the DVDs!

Make sure to save the alpha channel before you Multiply.

The Multiply part of the Multiply and Flatten action is simply done by duplicating the texture map layer many times (maybe 10 or 15 times - some images require less, but I just use alot in my Action to ensure the Action works for all my maps). This will ensure that the semi-transparent edge pixels get duplicated enough times to become totally opaque before you flatten it against black.

After you've multiplied enough times, you can merge the layers, create a layer of black pixels at the bottom of the stack, then flatten a copy of the entire document.

Because there are so many steps here, I just made an Action the first time I did this and now it's as easy as a click of the Action button.

Let me know if you have any more questions. :)

Irhen

11-25-2006, 03:17 PM

Very love your lessons and works!
Thanks Chris for your talent.It's ably and easy to understand :D .
I love mattepainting even more when I look yours dvd.
Thanks...... and .....inspiration! :oops: :wink:

eol

11-25-2006, 03:37 PM

Chris Its great that you are so helpfull !! :) Thank you. I found another way doing the same. Its by manipulating alpha channel , There are cool Filter Factory filters with wich you can make your alpha values as high or low as you want:)
I found very usefull creating camera map setup straight after concept sketch:) This way you can check what needs to be painted or rendered. Im wondering how did you do this 30s scene from star wars I read about it in d.Artiste.Matte.Painting.Book but still dont know what was rendered frame by frame in max . As I think landing platform and nearby building had to be rendered this way as it huge camera move. And the last question If I may :) How Is this wonderfull glow In aircraft made. I tryed find it in max effects in render settings but it wasnt moving across surface . I was suprised that you are not using any global illumination like vray - what do you think about GI in mattes? Thank you so much Its huge pleasure for me being able ask You questions!!

cstoski

11-25-2006, 08:49 PM

Everything in the Star Wars landing latform shot was camera mapped except for the ships and characters. The foreground elements typically had more than 1 camera map on them. As for the glow and lens flare on the ship, that was added in the comp, not in Max. You can add flares in Shake or After Effects and animate them to mimic what they would do in 3d with faster results.

Occasionally I'll use Brazil for GI, but it's not always necessary.

Bluemilk

11-25-2006, 10:09 PM

just wanted to say that i really enjoyed your dvds and also your production work

thanks

cstoski

11-29-2006, 08:13 PM

Thanks.

Nice work on your www page!

Bluemilk

12-03-2006, 06:47 PM

thanks your too kind

Cheque is in the mail! :)

ranjeetspatil

12-22-2006, 05:48 AM

Realy tuff.
Verry Nice this scene..I Love It

Thanks & Regards,
Ranjeet Patil

pianoman3d

12-22-2006, 04:12 PM

Very nice DVD's Chris. i really enjoyed your dvds. I just want to ask on your 2nd DVD can you use "camera map perpixel" instead of "camera map modifier". What's the difference between the two.

cstoski

01-01-2007, 04:13 PM

I'm glad you enjoyed the DVDs!

Yes, you can use the "camera map per pixel" if you want. The difference between the two is that the "camera map per pixel" is independant of the geometry mesh resolution. By this I mean, the geometry can be low-poly and the projection map will still appear accurate and undistorted. With the older "camera map modifier", you sometimes have to tesselate the geometry into smaller polygons so that the texture map being projected doesn't distort.

pianoman3d

01-01-2007, 07:21 PM

Hi Chris, thanks for the info. But why did you used the older cammap? Is it better than the cammap per pixel in some cases? I tried to experiment on the max files on your second dvd and I changed the materials to cammap perpixel, the diffuse and the opacity cause I just want to try what cammap per pixel can do.
Here is the original cammap modifier from your dvd
http://img67.imageshack.us/img67/2233/cammapmodifierrw6.th.jpg (http://img67.imageshack.us/my.php?image=cammapmodifierrw6.jpg)

Here is what my render looks like "cammap per pixel"
http://img219.imageshack.us/img219/2007/cammapperpixelzg7.th.jpg (http://img219.imageshack.us/my.php?image=cammapperpixelzg7.jpg)

My image looks like it was squezzed in the center

I changed the image aspect to 1.607 and here what the render.
http://img486.imageshack.us/img486/1244/cammapperpixel2ix9.th.jpg (http://img486.imageshack.us/my.php?image=cammapperpixel2ix9.jpg)

I made red lines in photoshop to show that inside it is the same image aspect ratio like in the original render
Looks like it will have the same image aspect ratio as the original if I will crop the red lines in video editor
Is it better to use camera map modifier? Does it have advantages than cammap per pixel?

Thanks

cstoski

01-01-2007, 08:42 PM

You have to make sure that the render output aspect ratio is set to the same value as your texture map that you're projecting BEFORE you select the camera in the camera map modifier. After this, you can change the render output aspect ratio if you wish, or simply crop it as you said in a video editor or comp software.

I prefer the Camera Map Modifer mainly out of old habit. I also thought it was important to show people how to work around the tesselation issue that modifier has so I used it on the DVD. Usually the meshes for cliffs and terrains need tesselation for sculpting anyway, so it isn't much of a real problem.

You asked "is it better than the camera map per pixel"? Yes, if you're like me and prefer to see the modifiers in the modifier stack for the object (it saves me a trip to the material editor). Also, if I add several camera map modifiers to an object I can easily see them and turn them on and off for testing purposes (click on the light bulb icon in the modifier stack).